by Antonio Graceffo
An ESL teacher in Saigon wrote me: “As you may have worked out already, the pronunciation of Vietnamese ESL learners is not great. I am looking at ways to try and improve the pronunciation of the learners at my school.”
”As a linguist, do you have any insights into spoken English and the difficulties that syllable-timed L1s (Vietnamese people) might have learning a stressed-timed L2 language?”
Pronunciation is always a problem for Asian students, but in my experience, having taught in a number of Asian countries, the Thais and Vietnamese seem to have the most problems with pronunciation. Chinese, Korean, or Khmer students have some consistent pronunciation problems, but they can make themselves understood. With Vietnamese, the pronunciation is often so far off that you have no idea what they are even trying to say.
When it comes to language learning, the Vietnamese are faced with several problems. At least two of which are unique to Vietnam, but the others seem to be consistent across Asia.
Let’s get the Asian consistent problems out of the way first.
A Lack of Listening
I am a proponent of ALG Automatic language Growth, a listening-only method of language acquisition (you can watch some of my ALG Videos here).
Without going 100% into ALG or applying it exclusively to an ESL classroom in Vietnam, I believe, beyond any doubt, that a significant factor contributing to Vietnamese students having pronunciation issues is that they simply don’t listen enough. If you haven’t heard the sounds, you can’t reproduce them. In the commercial ESL marketplace, across Asia, parents are told that their children will be speaking English from their first day. The focus of the entire program is on speaking, rather than listening. Good foreign ESL teachers do model the target language, before asking students to produce it. But it’s not enough. When you learned English, you heard phrases hundreds or even thousands of times before you spoke them. But in Asian ESL, students are asked to produce after one or two hearings.
If you look on an ESL syllabus, obviously there are always listening exercises built into the curriculum, but they generally account for less than ten percent of class time. Production counts for the bulk of class time. This needs to be reversed, fifty minutes of listening and ten minutes of production would be a better ratio.
Along with the lack of listening in the programs, there is a cultural problem with listening. For whatever reason, it just seems that across Asia, listening skills, even in the mother tongue, are horrendous. It is particularly bad in Southeast Asia where, during a listening exercise, a student would think nothing of having a conversation with his neighbor or making a call on a cell phone.
Once again, if they don’t listen, they can’t learn the target language and won’t be able to reproduce it.
Cultural Factors
Culturally there are a number of factors which adversely effect the Asian learner:
Face: Students don’t want to make any mistakes because they could lose face. Not wanting to stand out – in most of the cultures across the region, the culture calls for conformity and for people to fit into prescribed roles in the society or in the group. No one wants to stand out or innovate, even if it means giving the answer to a question. Students will generally wait until a number of brave souls have answered before they will answer. This is true of all societies to varying degrees. But in Asia, the goals in a group activity are consensus and harmony, not standing out or being exceptional, as say an American would try to do.
Rote Learning: The Confucian education system, which is prevalent in Taiwan, Korea, Japan, and Vietnam is based on rote learning. If we take Kung Fu as an example of the ultimate expression of confusion learning; all of the Kung Fu movements which will ever exist, already exist. There will be no innovations and no additions. The best student is the one who most accurately copies his teacher and reproduces what the teacher does. In the days when people still fought with kung Fu or used it for self-defense, the logic in the training was that the teacher would think of every possible attack situation the student would face. Actually, the teacher didn’t think of it, he learned it from his teacher, who learned it from his teacher. Then the student was taught one prescribed reaction to each situation he would face. So, the best fighter was the one who memorized the largest number of attacks and counters, because he had the highest probability of winning, no matter what attack came.
This type of logic is applied to all forms of pedagogy in Asia. Students are rewarded for copying their teacher. On an essay exam, the teacher expects to see the students reproduce, verbatim, his or her words, from the lecture. In America, a students would normally receive a very low grade if he dutifully repeated the teacher’s words, rather than thinking of an answer himself or herself.
In language learning, this method is also applied, but doesn’t work. Students are conditioned to react to very specific stimuli. And if you don’t ask the question, exactly as it is written in the book, their would be cultural barriers preventing the student from answering.
One day, my schedule called for my class to watch a DVD. I had the DVD, but I needed the player. I explained this to my Vietnamese co-teacher and asked her to “go get the DVD machine.” She had no idea what I was talking about. “The DVD machine. We need the DVD machine to watch the movie.” I told her. She left, and returned with a DVD. “NO, we have the DVD already. We need the machine.” I said. Then I stopped and remembered the exact verbiage, “I need the DVD player.” I said, and then everything was fine.
Obviously, language is a living breathing thing which will not follow rules established in a classroom. Also, there are over 400 million English native speakers from countless countries, on ALL of the continents. They won’t all speak the same way. But the Vietnamese education system only prepares the students to deal with people who just stepped out of a textbook.
Back to Vietnam…
Now, getting to the specific issues of pronunciation for Vietnamese students: Vietnamese is a Mon Khmer language. There are only two major Mon Khmer languages (“major” meaning used as a national language). They are Vietnamese and Khmer. Vietnamese is tonal, whereas Khmer is not. But apart from the tones, the linguistic rhythms are quite similar. As for pronunciation, Mon Khmer languages have a very limited number of terminal sounds. In Khmer, I think there are only 8 possible sounds that can come at the end of a word. In Vietnamese, the number is a bit higher, but still much lower than English. This is significant because if the students mother tongue does not contain a certain sound, they can’t hear it in another language. Or, the sound may even exist in the mother tongue, but never as a terminal sound. So, once again, if that sound is used as a terminal sound in English, they don’t hear it.
When you hear the student speaking with tortured pronunciation, keep in mind that he is hearing something very similar to what is coming out of his mouth, which would explain why the students often don’t understand you.
I haven’t studied Vietnamese as deeply as I have Chinese. So, I may be off here, but in Chinese, Chinese native speakers are not taught to recognize words by phonemes. They are taught to recognize words by tones. The tone is more important for conveying meaning than is the phoneme. I would have to believe that to some degree this is the case in Vietnamese. It won’t be as severe as in Chinese because Mon Khmer languages have multi-syllabic words. Chinese is composed of single syllables, so the tones are probably more important to tell them apart. With Vietnamese, because of my personal approach to study, I see that 80% of Vietnamese vocabulary is composed of single syllable compound words, derived from Chinese. But I am not certain if the Vietnamese interpret or hear their own language this way.
I think we can say that the lack of tones in English becomes a factor in listening comprehension and sound reproduction. But I am not sure to what degree this is a problem for Vietnamese students.
False Friends
When you begin to learn the Vietnamese language, you see the Vietnamese alphabet, Quốc-ngữ, and think, “Oh this is easy. It looks like the Roman alphabet.” But then when you read aloud, no Vietnamese person can understand you. The reason, of course, is that although the characters used in Quốc-ngữ are derived from the Roman or Latin alphabet, Quốc-ngữ is not the Roman or Latin alphabet. The pronunciation of the letters is quite different. The pronunciation of combinations of letters differs from the pronunciation of the same letters pronounced separately. The pronunciation of letters occurring at the ends of words is often different than when those same letters appear at the beginning or in the middle of a word.
When a westerner learns Chinese or Thai, he has no presupposed notions of how any of the strange characters should be pronounced. So, he simply listens to the teacher (hopefully) and repeats, with no bias. But when a westerner learns Vietnamese, he has to unlearn his suppositions about the Vietnamese writing system. It takes a long time for most people to do this, and very few will do it 100%.
Obviously, for Vietnamese learning English, the same must be true. If, in his mind, he is applying Vietnamese sound values to the Roman alphabet, his reading will be unintelligible.
Just Listen…
Generally, when I write a piece about a language, I send it to my teacher, David Long, the world’s leading expert on ALG. He will read an article like this and say words to the effect of, “Interesting article. You brought up some good points. But none of this matters.” The short answer is, if you want students to have native like pronunciation, they need to listen for 800 hours. The more the students listen, the better their pronunciation will be. It is that simple.
About Antonio
Antonio Graceffo (a.k.a. "The Brooklyn Monk") is a martial arts and adventure author living in Asia. He is the author of 6 books, including including The Monk from Brooklyn, Adventures in Formosa, Rediscovering the Khmers, The Desert of Death on Three Wheels,Boats, Bikes, and Boxing Gloves: Adventure Writer in the Kingdom of Siam, and his latest book, Warrior Odyssey: The Travels of a Martial Artist in Asia. All his books are available on Amazon.com here. He is also the host of the web TV show, “Martial Arts Odyssey,” which traces his ongoing journey through Asia, learning martial arts in various countries (watch select clips here).- Follow Antonio on Twitter
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- Listen to the Brooklyn Monk in Asia Podcast (anti-travel humor)
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“You brought up some good points. But none of this matters.”
Haha, great quote. In general, I tend to be of the belief that all language problems will iron themselves out in time with enough input. That said, the student has to be taught to listen actively and mimic what he or she hears. All too many second language speakers settle into accepting “just being understood,” and thus will continue to make the same errors over and over so long as they can still get the message across. The student needs to be taught to, while listening, reflect on what they’re hearing and think “Ohh, so that’s how a native speaker would say that. Next time that situation comes up, I can say the same thing.”
But maybe this is just a problem with current educational methods forcing output before students have enough input. It’s harder to break long-standing bad habits than it is to prevent them in the first place.
Yesterday I was contracted by a non-profit to work with Vietnamese migrants (aka boat people). Hence my search for knowledge about Vietnamese cultural information and English learning issues. That led to me by happy chance to your blog. I read your article with avid interest, especially when I picked up on the emphasis on listening.
How exciting to actually find someone talking about what I have been pushing for years now in schools, with students, and with my colleagues. I had no idea there was actually a name for this ALG; I’ll definitely be exploring your videos and researching David Long.
A lot of the ESL teachers I encounter tend to either be communicative English zealots or fanatical grammarians: though likable people nonetheless, some of my best friends are even labor supporters
.
These teachers tend disagree with me on the importance that listening plays in the classroom, and I was beginning to feel like I was one of a very tiny minority.
These days I work as a relief teacher in Australia. I usually teach mixed groups of international students, and something I often ask a new group is which of the 4 skills are most important when it comes to learning and developing language. Of course the answer I most often here is speaking; so I ask them what they learn from speaking English. Eventually we get to the point where they realize that it is listening and reading that help us learn an develop the language skills we require.
When I did my TESOL course I was told the holy grail was 90% student speaking and 10% teacher speaking in class. Followed that for quite a few years and saw little progress for my students. I don’t know when or why it happened but I started to change the ratio and the more the ratio changed the more progress I saw my students make. Now listening is the major part of a lesson with me, with interactive reading following that, and production playing the minor role.
Mind you, being a strong believer in the theory of unconscious grammar my goal is to have as direct an effect on the language learning center of the brain as is possible. Therefore, I strongly discourage memorization and conscious use of grammar in the classroom. With homework forbidden, textbooks avoided, and real world listening and reading activities, such as repetitive step by step playing of modern popular pop songs until students can actually recognized the words being sung the lessons are extremely popular, and most of all effective.
As for James comment ‘…too many second language speakers settle into accepting “just being understood…’, that raises a few questions for me. Isn’t communication the key point of language? And is there any such animal as correct English? If so whose English? While it is vital that some standard for the sake of intelligibility is maintained, how important is it that I pluralize correctly for example just so long as I am understood?
I question the validity of calling some versions of English actually English, such as the more extreme forms of Singlish, seeing as most English speakers would have no idea of what is being said: for that matter can we really consider Pidgin English actually English based on the criteria of mutually understood language?
What I tell my students is that ‘perfection’ is always an illusion; “your not perfect in your own language so why would you imagine it is a reasonable goal to seek to be perfect in English?” In effect, “communication not perfection” is the goal. Hence the importance of pronunciation; though again to-mar-toes or to-may-toes, or even too-may-toes, as long as I understand you are talking about the vegetable – yes, I know it’s actually fruit – that’s all that really matters in the end.
Of course image is vital in so many cases in fields such as business, as is being able to use Standard English in universities etc. So, again there is a place for standards, but I would suggest that the starting place surely has to always be communication.
Thanks for the insights and I look forward to learning a lot more about ALG in the near future.
Kind regards,
Kerry.
Thank you to everyone for your comments/suggestions/insights. I am working fruitlessly at the moment with a young Vietnamese guy in preparation for his IELTS speaking test. Yes, pronunciation is next to almost diabolical. I take on board the “listening” advice. Thank you. Has anyone experimented with the option of professional “speech therapy”? It’s a last ditch effort
thank you
Matthew
I actually have considered deferring to speech therapist, rather than an ESL teacher, for sever pronunciation issues in Vietnamese and Thai who are learning English. I think with 7 years of higher education, those people may be more skilled at assisting these learners. My frustration, as a language learner myself, is that there not even one similar forum in Chinese, Thai or Vietnamese, where dedicated teachers are trying think of better ways to teach Asian languages to westerners.
Do the Vietnamese students you’re talking about speak with a southern Vietnamese accent? If they do then it is harder for them to learn English because their accent is very strong and different from English. You do realize Vietnamese is not spoken with the same accent throughoutthe country right?
I have studied in both Hanoi and Saigon and yes, I am aware of the differences in the two dialects, but NEITHER of them would yield any particular advantage in learning English. I would find it very unlikely that there is data to support a contention that Northerners find it easier to learn English.
I work with several people from Cambodia and even more from Vietnam. I would like to help them learn English. How do I even get started? I was thinking in will use my lunch a day or two a week. Any suggestions are welcome. I’m in sales at my company, most our production staff have little if any English speaking ability.
Dawn
I have a 3.5 year old grandson who speaks predominantly Vietnamese, as does his mother. He is now preschool age, and they are trying to figure out how to help him speak English. He understands perfectly, but speaks little and there are so many sounds he cannot make, and therefore cannot make himself understood. I am looking for strategies for helping him, animal sounds help, as he does not make any “S” or “P” sounds unless asked to directly repeat them.
Strategies would be welcome!
K
I have a friend who is vietnamese and she doesn’t really have the money to enroll or be tutored in how to speak english. She knows very little. I would like to help her but I am not sure where to start. Can anyone help me?
Re: 3.5 year old who doesn’t speak English but understands perfectly…
I am an ESL teacher with 8 years teaching outside of my home country. My twin, 4 y.o. sons did not speak English until they were 3.5, even though we spoke only English at home, and they understood everything. (We don’t live in an English-speaking country, but I am a native English speaker, speak the language fo the country, and their dad is bilingual.) The BIG change came when we told them they would not be able to speak to family members on vacation, and less than a week after arriving for a month-long visit, they began producing English and now distinguish perfectly well when and with whom they should speak English and the language of the country in which we live.
If your grandson lives in an environment where both languages are spoken and is not producing English yet but understands everything, he is not speaking English because it is not necessary for him to to get what he needs. In my opinion, and from personal experience, if he understands everything in both languages, then he has the ability to speak both languages. He may speak English with an accent, as my boys do, but he is probably capable of speaking.
One last note, don’t worry too much. The bulk of language development skills take place from 0-6 years of age, so he is in his prime for learning, and preschool is a perfect place to do it. Before you know it, he will be speaking English at school, Vietnamese with his mom, mixing the languages, making literal translations between the two languages-an innumerable number of cute words/ideas will come out of his mouth. If you think you can force him to speak, you can’t. Let it be a natural process, and he will be more successful later on.
Kirsten,
Don’t worry about your grandson. He will pick up English on his own in no time. My sister was 4 years old and didn’t speak any English when we arrived in Canada. She spoke and understood English within 2 weeks after attending kindergarten. Children at this age have an amazing ability to learn a new language.
Q